From Many Offers to One Engine: How Focus 10x’d a Grant Writing Business with Holly Rustick

In this episode, Charlotte interviews Holly Rustick, world-renowned grant writer, bestselling author, and business coach. Holly shares her journey from international nonprofit work to building a thriving, location-independent grant writing business from Guam. She reveals how her students have secured over $250 million in grants and $7.4 million in business revenue, all while championing a mission to reach $1 billion in funding by 2030.

Key topics include:

• Holly’s unconventional start in grant writing and her global, remote work lifestyle
• The evolution from agency work to launching the Freelance Grant Writer Academy and Grant Professional Mentorship
• The power of tracking results with Airtable and celebrating student wins
• Building authority through podcasting and publishing a bestselling book
• The importance of literal branding and clear messaging
• Strategies for scaling, including productising services and running live trainings
• Empowering women in the nonprofit sector and creating a movement for change

Tune in for actionable insights on niching down, building authority, and creating impact-driven business growth.

Links Holly has shared

• Free Grant Writing Class: How to Write a Winning Grant in 7 Steps - https://grantwritingandfunding.com/free-grant-writing-class
• Freelance Grant Writer Checklist: https://grantwritingandfunding.com/5-steps-to-become-a-freelance-grant-writer
• Write Grants, Get Paid Newsletter: https://grantwritingandfunding.com/write-grants-get-paid-newsletter
• Private Podcast - Master Grant Template Downloadable and 5 part Private Podcast Series: https://grantwritingandfunding.com/private-podcast

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Transcript

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Hi. Welcome to the Authority Builder Podcast. Today I'm joined by Holly Rustick. She is a world renowned grant writer, bestselling author, and business coach on a mission to flip the word billion for Forget. Through her grant writing and funding community, she's helped grant writers collectively secure $1 billion for in funding for causes they care about and build 30 million. Dollars in business revenue by 2030. That is their goal. And I just think it's such an incredible, this, it's just win, win, win, right? there's, there's no downside to that. so, so far her students have already won over $238 million in grants and then more than 6 million through their own businesses with 20 plus years in the field. Holly teaches new and seasoned grant writers to replace their full-time writing income writing grants, part-time from home through her freelance Grant Writer Academy and grant professional mentorship programs. And in addition to that, she's also the host of the top rated grant Writing and funding podcast, and the author of the Bestselling Beginner's Guide to Grant Writing. You know, I love an author, so I'm get excited to get stuck into that. And probably the most exciting thing of all, well. You, well, very exciting, that you have a via, ma in international political economy, but for me it's super exciting that you live on the island of Guam. Yeah. With your daughter Isabella. And, yeah. So first of all, thank you for joining me. I feel like it must be late evening for you. Yes. Yeah. So we're like on opposite time zones, but we actually have a lot that cross over, ironically. Yes. Right. As well. Like in the UK and Guam and then compared to the us Right. So, absolutely. Yeah. It's kind of fun. And then, yeah, my va she's in Spain. I have a co-coach in Spain. Like, it's, it's so cool because we have a lot of overlap, so Yeah. And we were just discussing beforehand, how difficult it is for me with small children. working into the evening and having clients on the Pacific Coast and trying to find times that work at this season of life Yeah. Is super frustrating. So it is just so interesting that you are obviously a US citizen because you're in Guam and that's the US I territory. Mm-hmm. but, and I guess the majority of your clients are in North America, but you are on this very different time zone to them. It's just I, I dunno why I always struggle with this kind of concept. Yeah. You know, it's interesting though because for me it, it kind of works like I started writing. ironically, like in another country anyways, so in Indonesia, so after the Asian tsunami, I was down in Indonesia back in 2004, like at the end of 2004, early 2005. And I was there working for a nonprofit. We were doing community. Resilience and rebuilding. And you know, one of the things that came, people came up to me 'cause I really got to know a lot of the people we were working with, a lot of the youth. I was taking martial arts and learning the language and doing all the things and riding our little bikes around, right. The things that compared to the un the big organizations which had like their armored cars with the whole thing. Yeah. And so since I was in the community and like really embedded a lot of the community folks, one of my friends, she was the one who was teaching pinches at the, the martial arts. And she was saying, Hey, my, in the tsunami, my, my cart got wept away. Like, she swept away. She had like one of those little mobile carts that sold Yeah. Water and gum and all the things. And she said, I need some money just to buy my first supplies in the cart and then it can be funded. So, but I don't know how to ask for money. 'cause I know they have it, like these big organizations, but I don't know how to do it. Hmm. So I was like, cool, no worries. I'm going to these meetings anyway. I can ask, I can write something, we can get you let me just do that. So we got our $500 and I remember that was able to do all the things Right. And I remember not even realize what I, I didn't even know that was writing grants. I didn't know, I just thought I'm a liaison. I'm in a, I'm in a privileged position and I can connect much mission and money and that's how it's always been in my mind. So I actually started overseas and then I've lived in Kuwait, UAEI went to my, I did my master's in Brussels and I was always freelance grant writing on the side while I was working. And this was I said, 2005. even we even went, I, I was working outside of DC for a while, but all of our clients were virtual. And that was pre Skype. pre-made Skype. Skype, oh my goodness. How were you doing that? I was living in South Korea around that time and I'm trying to remember how did I communicate with my family? 'cause I also didn't have a mobile. yeah. Yeah. It was maybe I didn't speak to them. I can't remember. Right. Or even we go even further back, I remember my grandma being this is costing too much money, on long distance calls. Yeah. So all the things. So we've come far and it's become now such a norm, especially after COVID d and a mainstream thing to be online. Right. And writing grants, we've always just done it. you can just do it from your own computer anyways. Right. so it's such an interesting skill that's been around for a long time. It's embedded in the economy. It's, I always say it's not trendy. And that's what I like about it because we know it's gonna be around for a while. 'cause it's, I mean, I've been through. Four government shutdowns now that we're recording this in October, late October, 2025. And in the US there's a government shutdown, but I'm this is not my first rodeo. I've been through, five different administrations. We've been through COVID, I, I've been through the oh eight recession all while writing grants and generating monies for, so yeah, that's a long-winded way to no, it's, but yeah. Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating. the, the fact that barely any of that time has been spent in the country where the majority of your clientele are. Yeah. And I just think that's so telling that it's, I mean, it's obviously something that started way pre COVID for you, but how, do you feel, well, when did you, let's start with that. when did you actually kind of formalize this as a business and stop doing the work? 'cause you mentioned you were working for a nonprofit in Indonesia. I actually did, I did it at a, as a subcontract, well, in a company outside of DC in oh 5, 0 6. And I got proper training. Then I realized what this was, and I mentioned, we had all virtual, clients and then I wanted to go and work in Kuwait. My mom was there. I was gonna, as I was teaching, but I was just talk to my boss. And it was funny 'cause I remember going, I, we have virtual clients anyways, so I'll just go and I can still work for you. Part-time. I didn't even realize I was freelancing. this is even before freelancing is mainstream, yes, you're, I'm aging myself. But it was just that's a possibility. 'cause and he was cool, no problem. So even when I moved, I was freelancing on the side. Even when I went to get my master's, I was freelancing on the side and that was good. 'cause that was in. Oh 8 0 9 and I was in Brussels and that was during the economic recession. So the Euro really took a dive, but I was your earning US dollars, that was good for me. Yeah. So it was this interesting thing happening. and then, so then I worked for a nonprofit here in Guam and I was a grant writer, a grant manager. And then in 2014 I was I can't do this anymore. It actually ended up to be a pretty toxic situation where I was many grant writers at our staff, overworked, I probably had three different actual job roles, but only getting paid for one. Mm-hmm. And you, my daughter at the time, she was. Three years old, four years old, two years old, and she was getting sick every other week in daycare. And I had to, you know, it was just a mess. And I was like, I, I can't, I actually went through I think, a form of depression, which was actually very good for me in a way, because it made me so uncomfortable that I had to do something about it. Yeah. it was more of a red flag that my body was Hey, if you don't do something, so I, and that's what I say, a lot of people, they're just in this mediocrity where it feels a little uncomfortable and they're, they're not really happy every day they're doing the grind. But once you hit I can't do this, it's so uncomfortable. That's actually an exciting part because that's when you're actually gonna change, right? That's when you're just hell no, I gotta move forward. And for me, that's what I did. So in 2014, again, a long, a good way to answer your question, that's what I started. So I've been full time for 11 years. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. And, and I just think that, just to dwell on that point, I think it's so true. We've really lost, to use gal mate's term, the mind body connection. We've really lost the kind of sense of mm-hmm. That is a hybridized thing. And those two things do not exist separately. And if you're unhappy and you, you will get to a certain point where your body really lets, you know, and then you have no choice but to address it. And I think that is a wonderful kind of safety valve that we have. Yeah. And especially as business owners who I can imagine, I do, I know this is endemic with a lot of females and particularly female business owners, but especially people who've come from a kind of giving background such as nonprofits, charities, et cetera. Yes. You've kind of got this inbuilt need to help and please, and accommodate. And there is only, there's a capacity for what we're able to do. And I was gonna ask you until you said it How did this correlate with your season of parenthood? Because there is a low tolerance during a certain season of life where you are just Yeah. Being pulled every which way on the home front as well, so, oh yeah. I mean it's, yeah, it's, I'm a single mom. I've always been a single mom since my daughter was born, and I've had, I've gone through this and it was one of the reasons that I was like, no, I have to do this for me. I can't depend on the man anymore. Yeah. I can't depend on anyone else there. And, and, and when I've looked at so many budgets on the backend as a grant writer, I know that no person in a nonprofit is financially stable. You could be cut at any time, you just don't realize it, and you're living in long land, and so you gotta wake up. So I even tell people I don't care if you keep your job. You need to become a freelance grant writer. Because you need to have something on the side for when you get fired, laid off, furloughed, whatnot. Like you have to have something that that can back you up because you never know. Yeah. And if you have that, then you have options, right? Yeah. Then you have options and you, and even people when they start to develop their, their freelance on the side, even they start to develop more boundaries in their nine to five. We actually teach you how to do that because I know I came from that toxic background. Hundreds of people in my program have come from that toxic background and to get, and so we actually help you really have be able to track that, have a data data system where you can actually create more boundaries, how to have conversations with your boss. All of that, as you mentioned. This industry, this sector of nonprofit, it is very much, built upon when women, were my high, high profile, had more time, had more money, we're volunteering. And now that we're doing the work and we're depending on it to get paid, it's a total transformation. so there's a lot of toxicity and in sexism that has been integrated. Into this whole system that needs to be shaken up. And 82% of freelance grant writers are female. And we've noticed that, we've done a lot of work with our, one of our partners gem's, grant, easy Management software that does an annual survey on pricing behaviors every year. So we're able to look at how females are approaching this and what we're realizing is females, a lot of times, I think it's on average 10 hours a week, they're not billing for. They're not billing for. So, and a lot of it's feeling I don't know how to have the conversation about it. even if you're a freelance grant writer, what happens sometimes if you don't get the training and you don't get, the mindset reshift is you bringing in that toxic behavior and you're treating your clients like your boss, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's breaking out of that as well. so yeah, there's a lot you mentioned. Yeah, we could dig, we dig through that. We do a lot of mindset coaching. Because once I can give someone a strategy, you can give someone a strategy, right? It's easy. Strategy's not hard. The part is then why aren't you implementing this strategy? Mm-hmm. And that's where the aha things come up of oh, I just didn't know how to ask for that raise, or I didn't know how to do the thing, or, That's where we get to uncover and we get to the source of that. So yeah, we made it look like we teach grant writing, we teach you how to be a freelance grant writer, but what we do is uncover your power. Right? So, and I think that's so, so good. We can get there. So phenomenally powerful. Yeah. Yeah. And, and especially, and what, can you talk about the skew in terms of age and gender of people who are in the programs? Yeah. So we have, We do have ages all over. So we have people who are young, they're wanting something interesting. They're, they're, maybe we have people in college. Uh, Christine, she just did her MFA and she was trying to do something on the side while she was doing her MFA, making 20 bucks an hour. Started with us and now made over a hundred K last year. And she's okay. And she finished a book for her thesis and all the things. So it's super cool. Um, and then we have people who have young kids, right? yourself, they're, they're wanting to be at working at home. they just can't do the whole, all the things they have to be home with their kids. And then we also have people who are burned out, right? They're burned out, they're wanting to leave the sector. They're, they're millennials, they're Gen X, all of that. And then we also have people, baby boomers. We actually have a lot of baby boomers too. Who are like, I'm retiring soon. I'm retiring maybe from the nonprofit sector or from corporate, and I wanna do something meaningful. You know, you, the whole thing, the ad adage of like, I'll be consulted when I retire. And they're going okay, what's, what is this though? It's a little bit I don't, I can't just quit and do it. Like they wanna transition. So we work with a lot of transitioning as well, which is so fun because then we have people in the program who are, you know, all different. They're learning from each other, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. but we also have people on all lenses. People who are new to grant writing, never saw a grant before in their life. People who have been writing grants for 20 plus years, right? Yeah. But new to business maybe, right? They're new to business or they've been in business for a few years and it's a hot mess and they need support. So, and then we have all races, gender, et cetera. it is such a diverse group of people, and I'm really proud to say that because it just, it makes the, the community so much more rich, right? Yes. I was gonna say richness. Yeah, from all over the world. We do have a lot from the United States, but we have people from the uk, from South Africa, from all, all around the world. And it's really, really cool to see that because they're writing grants and they'll be does this, this thing that Federal grants though? And I'm yeah, let's connect you with the other people who are writing international grants or this one's writing UN grants, or this one's working in Africa. So they have like their own little circles too, so they can kind of see what's going on in those niches as well. Well I have to say I, it is, I've done a lot of research after our initial conversation Hmm, sounds so interesting. 'cause I've written a couple of grants in the past and it's something I actually enjoyed doing and it was kind of a bit of a hark back to. Being at university, and it was also on behalf of our own business. And, and that that was also an incredible, experience in reflecting back on what's been achieved, what the bigger mission and goals were. So I think even from kind of kind of selfish perspective about implementing it within, your own organization, there's a, like, it's a huge skill set to have, I know from experience. It is. So will you talk us through then, a little bit about your offer architecture? So I know you've got two programs, but why do you have two? Like instead of just one with add-ons? Sure. So we just want it to be simple. Our academy, our freelance grant writer academy is our signature, program that people really enter from, and that's if they're new to grant writing or they're new to business, as I mentioned, they could be new to grant writing and new to business, or they could have written grants for 20 years, but their business is a hot mess right now. Or they're, they're translating into that. So we have that and that's $2,500 for 12 months. It gives them coaching community of weekly coaching calls. We have all the curriculum we're doing, we're starting up, November 4th to December 18th, like once or twice a year we do a six week live master grant template training. So we're doing that. We pull our curriculum live. A lot of times we have a quit your, quit Your Toxic Job, strategy that we have, and we also teach other funding assets. Right now, a lot of people, if they're in grants or in the nonprofit world, they may know that 2025 has been very interesting with the grant freezes at the beginning of the year, all the federal changes, all of the things going on. So we've really addressed that head on, and I'm really proud to say that our students inside the program are earning more this year in their businesses than they did in 2024. That is mind boggling with everything going on. Mm-hmm. And that's because we really leaned into my experience of doing this for more than 20 years and having the ups and downs. Mm-hmm. But also leaning into I know how to do other funding streams. So we take the master grant application that I've mentioned, that we teach you how to write, and it's a really robust document, about 28 pages. And we teach you how to turn it into a corporate solicitation. We teach you how to turn it into a donor appeal. We teach you how to turn it to other, right. So even a website copy newsletters that you can, so you can also do other writing for nonprofits and serve them. And this is why our students are earning more money this year. And even for, we mentioned in the beginning of the show, it's up to over $7.4 million. A incredible. Emailed you a couple months ago. Yeah, it's, and we're up to 250 million in grants secured. So Steve students are still winning grants and in our program, which is really cool 'cause we use Airtable. I know, you know Ashley from S os. Shout out to her. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's gonna be my next question. Results and tracking. Like how do you do that? Tell, tell me how, walk us through that results tracking system. What does it look like and what do you measure? Weekly versus quarterly? Sure. So, we measure whenever they win a grant or whenever they win a client, right? And when with their jobs. So we to see what you replace time, income right now, you job. So what we do, and we celebrate the hell out of that, but every day we have wins at our Slack channel that comes through a, they submit an Airtable. And what we track, we've actually updated our system recently and I'm really excited about it. So before we just be like, oh, I got this much money in, in a client, we'd be like, yay. Or I got this much money in a grant. Cool. But now we went deeper and we asked Where did you get the grant from? Was it a foundation, federal or state grant? Right. what type of grant was it? How much was it for, from what place and what in the academy helped you get that grant? And then all the students can see it. So I'm telling you, if you haven't won a grant yet, just watch that channel and copy what those students are doing. If they're saying, I'm getting my grants reviewed. 'cause we have unlimited grant reviews in there. Get get your grants reviewed. figure out what they're doing and replicated. And then they can also see the pulse of the sector. Who's giving grants, what foundations are right now, what's hot, all the things. And they can track that. And then in clients one, what we're tracking through that is how much money they made. Was it a retainer, was it a package, was it hourly? What was that? So was it a grant readiness package? Was it, what specifically it was. And then also, what helped you in the academy get that client? So once again, are they using a certain function that you aren't aware of? 'cause we have a lot of stuff in there Right. That, that you can just see. And I'm really excited about that. And it's almost made like students are like, now that we're getting more and more wins 'cause they're able to see more. So it's been like this beautiful cycle of now we're able to be like every week. so now every, so once a month I'm doing all my podcast grant funding. I'm doing a series on it. So I'd love to get your feedback on that too. Mm-hmm. Of where I just say every month, these are all the grants. One, this is how much it was. This is all the clients one this. Just to be so other people know if you're new to grants, you'd be like, oh, there's po Not only knowing there's possibility, but knowing what specifically is getting done too. So you can be like, oh, I'll apply to that foundation 'cause they're giving out money. I'm hearing about this. So you we're doing a subseries on that. We'll start it monthly now that we're collecting this detailed information. Wow. I have so many questions. Yeah. And shout out to Ashley. 'cause honestly, the, using Airtable, which Ashley's, firm systems over stress teachers and, I reckon you're probably a member of her program as well. Yeah. it's been a huge shift for our business. It's initially quite a, Overwhelming kind of technology to use, but as soon as you get your head around it, the possibilities in terms of client servicing, but also getting that feedback, testimonials are all capture it. Just a level of organization that allows you, frees you up and also collects data and qualitative feedback. They, you can then recycle into marketing to attract other people back into the business because they see the results. And as you said, allow people who are already working with you to maximize their time with you and the resources that are available. it just, again, another kind of situation, which is just a win win win. It's just because it's this interation interrelation database, you can connect all the dots because as small business owners, there's a limited amount of. You know, there's an endless number of things we can be doing, but what you could actually do within the 24 hours a day that we are given is obviously much more limited, and especially if you've got a small, a small team. But Airtable just makes my experience is, allows you to behave as a much bigger organization and as a business owner allows me to have confidence in, marketing and growing, because I know our systems will scale with us. But yeah, as a, as a marketer, I'm just hearing how you've implemented that, hearing all the different things that you're doing, and I'm hang on, what is that in Slack or is that in Air table? And I just, so many different things but you that you are able to then share both in and outside of the program that I know will be strengthening the relationships with your prospects and clients, which is amazing. We love recycling here and, uh, in terms of marketing materials, but, so just, can you talk me through, because I feel like we talked a bit, we talked quite a lot about what is. Like what the program is, who comes into it, but how do they find you? And this being the Authority Builder podcast, we love when someone has their own podcast or a book, and you have both. And, and also you have, you know, you've been the number one grant writing show, in terms of your podcast for years. So how did you, how did you corner that niche? How did you own that area? And what does that influence look like on people coming into your business? Yeah, I mean, I think, okay. So, and right before we get there, I will talk about our grant professional mentorship. As you mentioned, we have two programs. Oh yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah. About that. More later if you'd like. But I wanna lean into this question is, I did it on a bet. Okay. So, well, the book or the podcast. Podcast. Okay. Actually kind of both, that was a goal, so, okay. So I did, I did the podcast on a bet. It was kind of I had this mastermind and I was doing it here in Guam, and I think it was 2016 or 2017, and every month. We had to do something to move our business forward, or we had to pay a hundred dollars. I love the things that make you take action. That's amazing. And my friend was you need a podcast? And this is 2017, right? so this is early days kind of a podcasting. Yeah. Relative speaking. before the, I mean once the pandemic hit, everyone started a podcast, but this was before that. So, I was because I'm in Guam, right? So that was, once again, it was saying Oh, that's hard if you're living somewhere isolated. And I was thinking I wanna grow an online business. I was doing a lot of grant, grant writing in my services, my agency then, and I wanted to have a course online. I was building out a course, I was writing my book. I wanted to, I wanted to expand 'cause there's about 160,000 people here on Guam. I needed to expand if I wanted to go online. 'cause I was seen, that's what I wanna do and I wanna do more training. I wanna have help more people. I'm a single mom, this has changed my life. I want to, you know, help more people. And, I don't want it to make money in a different way. I needed to have more time in my flexibility and my schedule. So she said, you gotta to start a podcast, even though it's five minutes just talking about how to write grants. Like, that's what you do every day. You've been doing it forever. you gotta do it. So I was like, okay. So instead of paying a hundred dollars, I think it was like 11:55 PM the 31st I published the podcast. I love it. Just like 10 minutes. hi, it's me, Holly. Yeah. And our motto was like, done is better than perfect. you just gotta get a, it has to be messy, or it can be messy, but it has to be done right? Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, I don't, whatever. And then I was like. This is fun. I can do it in my pajamas, I can do it anytime I can, I can just share this and into the void. And you, you can tell by this podcast, I'm a chatter. and I loved, I'm passionate about this, so I started publishing it and then all of a sudden we started, you know, I started getting fo I think, I don't know, 3000, and then it was like this, and you know, it went up and then all of a sudden it just started skyrocketing because I kept doing it. Yeah. And I think when I first started it was like every other week. And I remember even being really sick one time and I'm like, I'm still gonna do it. I just started having this, relationship with it. but then I started meeting people. I was like, oh, I'm gonna doc reach out to Dr. Bev Browning, like the ga Brant guru goddess. I took a course from her a long time ago and all, and I reached out to her. We have a great friendship now. We've co-developed a course together. Wow. I have friends, like, I stayed with my friend Sean in New York City that I met through the podcast. Like I stayed my, my daughter and I stayed with him and his husband, like the financial district, they have a sweet path, was I met so many people and developed these real relationships that I could have never done if I didn't have this podcast. So it's brought so much joy into my life, and then I've been able to build up a, a great following. you know, we we're still number one ranked. we really grew in COVID and it, of course people, more people are, are now listening to podcasts. And I think part of it too is. It's like algorithms, like we started so early. We've been there, we have so many reviews and we've really worked to get the reviews too. that really helps with the, they don't really have algorithms ish, podcast, but and we just, yeah. I, I, I've absolutely loved it. Now it's just been a great part for me to meet so many people. Yeah. So I love it. Do I, I'm just curious before we move on to the book, what, how do you. Incentivize getting reviews. It sounds like you have a process around that. Are you able to share? I don't wanna, yeah. I encourage you to give it away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, it's easy. It's easy. Okay. you, well, you have to come on my podcast, but anyways, I just have like a form. So especially for people who come on my podcast, I say, Hey, this is reciprocal. you don't have to, we don't ever take payment to be on a podcast, but we do say, Hey, would you mind leaving a review? So we actually a lot come on our podcast, say, say, and while they're filling out the form, it's like, yes, I've left a review yet. Have you left a review? Yes or no? Right. They have, oh my goodness, that's so smart. I haven't even thought about that. Yeah. And of course, you're giving them free marketing, right? we're developing, we, we spend money putting together our design team to put together the things and our editing and all of that, mm-hmm. The least you can do is review, especially if you wanna come on a podcast and believe you and me, we probably get at least five. Inquiries every single week, daily for people to come on the podcast. Yeah, I know. To 99.9% of them. so if you wanna come on my podcast, that's, you know, we're very who we have on does a fit. Yeah. Yeah. We make no, we need to make sure it's a good fit. I'm not promoting just anybody's software. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. And yeah, I know what you mean about the, we get an awful lot of those. Uh, we're not number one in our sector by any stretch, but, in terms of our podcast. But, I was probably about three years out from starting. It when you started and kind of probably just missed that. I was, I was a COVID podcaster, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was 2220 and I think I was just missing human connections. So I started speaking into the void for, to avoid speaking to my 18 month old who was driving me to the edge of reason at that point with no childcare. but anyhow, I, yeah, that's, that's such a smart point. it's just a small thing and they do it. Yeah. And, you know, and it helps. And then even our students sometimes will do a thing. I've done drives before. I haven't done one. I, this is actually a good reminder. I should probably do one. We, we, do drive sometimes, I'll, I have given away my eCopy of my book for free if you a podcast review, stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Just to engage people with the podcast more too. But you know, we, so I can, I have incentivized it at different times like that. I should probably do another one just to get some, yeah. Oh my God. And I can do that too, because I have a book and they're about to be another one too. why am I not doing it? Oh my goodness. This is amazing. This is why people need to speak to other people guys. Yes. It's just so, I love it. So tell me about the book then. Was that, was that another bet? Was that the following month and you got to like the 31st? Gotta write a book in a day? Like how did that happen? Okay, so, I was kind of, yeah, kind of curious, but, I've always developed my business actually as well. Like, so it can gimme freedom, but also because I have a, I'm a writer, right? Yeah. So I actually have. Fiction writing and when I was writing. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love it so much. I'm actually working with, and my editor right now, we're getting ready to pitch to agents pretty soon for this new series. I've put together romcom. I write romantic comedy. I absolutely love it. It is my happy place. And, my business has allowed me to have the time to do that. Right. Oh, love it. So, but when I was doing it, I, I was like writing my, my novels and I published a poetry book and, and I was talking to some, and they were once again, like, why don't you have a grant writing book Holly, like, for your business? And I was like, duh. what I mean? So, put this together and honestly, nonfiction books are so much easier to write than fiction. 'cause to me, I'm like, here's the framework, da da da, like, done. Right. So, yeah, I published the book and what's really, so marketing. We're talking marketing and we're talking all of this here. What not to do and what to do. My first title did not sell that well because it was witty and what I learned was don't make witty titles and that's why my, my business grant writing and funding, okay, it might sound boring, but people when they're looking for grant writing or funding, that is SEO. Right? It's easy. The Freelance Grant Writer Academy, you know what it's about, right? The grant professional like, and my first, so it's called the Beginners Guide to grant writing right now. Now you can, people are looking at beginners grant writing. Boom. You can find it, but it was called Wish Granted. Super cute, right? Great. Great for romantic comedy. Right? Yeah, exactly, exactly wrong for nonfiction. So, you know, no one's looking for a wish. Granted, even though it's, I'm like, it's so cute. It's whimsical, well, whimsical doesn't sell. Said my book coach, who I eventually went to, 'cause I'm like, what the hell? Why, why, why isn't this a tipping point? And as soon as we changed the title, and it's now sold more than 10,000 copies used in universities all over the world, and nonprofits all over the world just hit number one on Amazon at least 14 times. Like, it's, it's good, you know, mean Yeah. It consistently brings an income, which we should probably talk about ads for the book, but, you know, it's one of those things that's just kind happening in the background, right? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. You've got so many amazing things though. It's like, what? It, it is understanding what you do what with, because there's so much good stuff, you know, so most people just have one, one good thing, but there's so much good free stuff knocking around and, and, and non-free stuff as well, but. Yeah. So many things you can start a funnel with. I also just, I hate how in business, I feel like when I was an agency, the CEO always used to say to me, God, you're so literal, Charlotte. And I was like, what's wrong with literal? It just gets us to the solution faster. Like, why are we, I, I mean look, I love a metaphor as much as the next person, but when you, when you are trying to connect the dots, make somebody hit somebody over the head with something until they realize it's right for them, it's just easier to be literal. So I love the fact that you learn that I, no, I don't like that you learned it the hard way, but I love that that point was proven because, this is, we work with clients in our Authority Builder program to help them create an authority platform. And it's often a book, it's often a podcast. And one of the things that we do end up kind of going to and fro on is generally they do not want, they want the whimsical title for the thing. Oh yeah. It's so much more fun, more gentle. But that's my, that's my brand, that's my personality. No, just throw your ego out the freaking door so you can make some money and connect with people. Yeah, yeah. be whimsical in the dedication or in the intro. You don't need to do it in the front cover. Yeah. Yeah. you can have, we have it's, it's, it's actually a workbook, so it's a lot of fun. We have a lot of, examples in there. yeah. All the things, but on the cover, I gotta sell it clear. Right. And I, I've learned that, so even people are oh, what's the name of your podcast? I'm grant writing and funding. And they're oh, it's the same name of your business. And I'm bingo. Right. keep it easy. Right. So, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. And so, and what, so that came, how long did it take you to write and what was your process? Because I completely agree with you. I've never written f actually I tell a lie. Classic had a child decided I could write children's. oh yeah. I've written my children. Yeah. I, how many parents have been in that situation then realized it was really hard. Didn't online course with Julia Donaldson not. Know, one-to-one of course, but, which was phenomenal. But I realized just how flipping difficult that is. And I, I've now written at least three nonfiction books, not all published. and some on behalf of a one, on behalf of somebody else. But I, I find it, I do agree. It's very, it's a lot more simple than you think it's gonna be because there's a structure and, the story of how, sorry, I will let you answer in a minute, but the story of how I wrote the book that most people kind of associate with caffeine, which is called Client Magnet. I probably could have learned from my own lesson there. I mean, it is literal to an extent, but doesn't tell you exactly who it's for. I was. breastfeeding my second child, for 15 months. And I, because we have a long maternity leave here and I was like, I am gonna lose my mind again second time round unless I find something to do while I am feeding with my one hand that I have available to use. Yes. And I would just go into the Notes app every time I fed and a reminders app in my iPhone. And I would write down one thing that I knew worked to help phone clients when you were running a creative agency. And when I went back after maternity leave, I didn't actually have any work initially because, you know, I'd just been away for a year. So I was like, okay, great, let just look through that reminders app, scraped it all off, deleted the duplicates, went to the coffee shop, dictated under each of the bullet points, what that actually means, how that shows up. And I was like. Before long I had, I don't have it here, which is annoying, but I had, I had a book, I had enough for a book and it was flipping hell. Did I write a book while I was breastfeeding like that is that make made me so happy. Yeah. but anyhow, tell me how, what did the structure look like for you? Like how did you approach the writing process? Yeah. Yeah, I, you know, I used Honoree Quarter's Method, and I don't know if you've ever heard of her before. I haven't. She has a book. Okay. She has a book called, you Must Write a Book. Okay. Talk about. Mm-hmm. She's the one in my literal title. Okay. And she's written 60 plus books. So that Lady is an animal, and I don't know if you're familiar with a Miracle Mourning, it's a really big mainstream. Mm-hmm. But yeah. Okay. She, she co-wrote that. Okay. And she's co-written. They also have The Miracle Morning for Real Estate Agents. Miracle Morning for Teachers. The Miracle, they made it a whole series franchise. Great. Yeah. She knows how to write, she knows how to make money. she's amazing. And, and she was the one who told me to determine my title, but I first originally just saw her on a podcast, and then I got the book and I went through the whole process, mm-hmm. How you find a coach sometimes. Right. and I, what she has a, she has some different strategies, I think three or four on how to write a book, depending on how fast you wanna get it done. And I did her 100 days. Holy Batman. Strategy or whatever. So it was just you have to put this, you have the framework together and then you have to write this much every day or finish this point, whatever it was. I mean, it was pretty clear, but it was having account and, and I had accountability, so I was I'm gonna put on social media, oh, I wrote this many words every day, or something like that, Yeah. it was having some kind of accountability and it was great. And she even taught me how to get an advanced readers team, so I don't know if you've done that with your books. but that's, it was a really good way to No, but I, something that I have learned about, but I haven't actually implemented. Oh, it's so easy. So you have a following. You have your, for all of you authors out there, this is what you wanna do over, you're thinking about writing a book and you have a following already. Even if it's, I think I only had 800 people on my email list at that point in time. Maybe, maybe even less than that. And I was cool. So I just sent out an email to everybody and I said, Hey, would you to be on Advanced Reader Team? You'll get a free e-copy of this and I just need feedback by this date. And then you'll get a free book when it comes out or whatever. but I just like to get some feedback and some testimonials, and then also for you to leave a review once it's published. Mm. So, that's what they did and I got like. 30 reviews right away on Amazon, which was great. 'cause that's where my book was, is selling, right? Mm-hmm. and it was, it was really good to get the feedback. They caught some errors in it too, but your editors won't, you know, so that was great. They, they gave some really great recommendations and they're really invested in the process. And then those reviews though are like gold, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, such a smart way of doing it as well. And I think on two levels for you, because you are literally sending it out to people who are editors and writers for a living, right? So they catch both the compatible stuff as well as they are the end user for the book. yeah. So they're looking at it from the kind of strategy and the teaching perspective as well. It amazing. Yeah. And you was pretty buzz for it too. Like you create, you, you bring people into that experience. Yeah, absolutely. So it's so fun. I would even do on social media, do you like this cover? This cover? And they could vote on that. it's just fun to include them in the process and Absolutely. And then I can give this out, sometimes I give it out, I mentioned. To get podcast reviews or whatnot. and it's it, and then I have all my lead gen or a lot of lead gen in the book. So it brings people to my email list. but a side note, what happened, I'll tell you because you're an author. I had, a university professor reach out to me and oh, I'll tell you another marketing strategy. So, but the university professor reached out to me and she said, Hey Holly, I got your book and I ordered another grant writing book and somebody has copied your book and I'm reaching out to you because your copyright is first somebody liter, word for word duplicated my book. But they made it a different cover and a different title. And so, but what was hilarious about it? 'cause I was so mad, of course, you know, rah, and because it's your work and, but what was hilarious about they, they duplicated everything. So even all the lead gen stuff to my website, it's Oh my goodness. Absolutely hilarious. But of course I reached out to Amazon, they took it down. My friend Sean, who's in New York, he also was helping me and he found another place. It was selling online. So, so good to have all your people. And that got taken down, but it was just oh my gosh, people do this. that's crazy. Were you tempted to leave it up though? Because all of the leads in a way. But I was no. yeah. I don't want people to think I'm copying that. I'm no. thank God she was smart enough to look at the copyright and, but just another way to market. So, 'cause this is a marketing podcast. Yes. and the authors, so what I did on LinkedIn. On LinkedIn specifically, love this. I started reaching out to university professors. Mm-hmm. And I would say, Hey, do you want a copy of my book? I'll send you an actual physical copy and I also have curriculum if you wanna implement it in your class. So I got a lot of people being yes, please send me. So yeah, it was 10 bucks. 'cause I got the author's deal, you know what I mean? And send it out via online, through shipping. And then all of a sudden, some of 'em are using 'em in their classes now. They order like multiple copies every year for different universities. And it was just a low hanging, you know, way of getting it embedded into institutions. So, yeah. So if you ever wanna do that, you, yours would do well in like marketing classes. Absolutely. And I'm why haven't I not thought about that? Because I actually do pro bono guest lecturing at seven of the leading mocking courses in the country. And because I'm frustrated that nobody teaches you how to find, they're enc a lot of the majority. Not majority, but a significant number of people are now leaving creative courses knowing that they want to start their own business rather than work for somebody else, but they're not being given any business, training while they're at university. And I was like, I'm so frustrated with working with people who just want to start an agency but have no idea. And this is when I was predominantly working with creative agencies. They don't have any, the, any idea of how many hats they have to wear and how hard it is to find clients initially and et cetera. I just wanna give them a taster of what that looks like. So they're going into it and my, basically my advice at the end was go work for somebody else for five years, make the actual absolute most of the opportunity. Here are the things to go get experience with specifically, and then go follow all this advice. And when you do it yourself, why was I not even speaking Well anyhow, I, I already have relationship with those lecturers, those heads of programs. Here's something Using your curriculum. Yeah. And especially if you give them a rubric, I have a rubric de, developed so they can use the book. And my book is a workbook, so it's easy. And this is even there's not a lot of, so you'd be, oh, that's so easy for me, Holly, but There's not a lot of grant writing courses though. Yeah. So I find people teach nonprofit administration health, a lot social work adjacent stuff might be Yeah. A week or two that they do in their course. Mm-hmm. So they're cool, this is helpful and then I don't have to do a rubric on this, and this is, Like this is a resource. So, it's helpful for them, but it does take a little bit of navigating for me as well to look at that, and to find that. But that's been a really cool experience. Yeah. Did you get external support in creating the curriculum side and the, you mentioned the rubric. Did you work with somebody? Well, it was a, yeah, no, I, I didn't, well, my mom's been an educator for 30 years, so yeah, I got good help from my mom, but I was also an instructor for a couple of years, while I was running my business. So I actually taught one class at the university. But it was funny 'cause they wanted to hire me as a grant writer for my, my, my grant writing agency. But the only way they could hire me was to hire me as an employee. But, so we worked out a deal that I only taught one class and I was able to do grant writing there as well. So, like, that's how they, and I just always realized that's my, I, I, and I viewed them. So people out there, they're looking at different ways to kind of view them. I always viewed them as my client, right? Yeah. I was like, you're my, you're just an anchor client right now and you pay for some of my taxes and you pay for some of my retirement, like my 401k. So that's pretty cool. It's just a different kind of contract I have with you. So I really enjoyed that type of thing as well when I had my agency full-time and I was able to do that full-time and I was able to get interns into my business, which was great 'cause I was on campus and I had those relationships more with the other professors. And do you do any grant writing at all anymore? Or are you solely focused on teaching other people? Yeah, so I had kind of shut my business down I 2020 'cause I was also, the president of the Guam Women's Chamber of Commerce in 2020. And businesses. We had a lot going on. Mm-hmm. I was. You know, had, and I had all my online courses and I was doing all the things and everything was going crazy plus no childcare, I imagine. Yeah, it was, it was a lot. It, and then my daughter was home from school doing online school. Yeah. I remember those days. And, and, and I was also, I was appointed by the governor to sit on a five person panel because I was the president of the chamber. So we were, I was like a full-time job. Right. So if you all serve on a board, right. Yeah. I sort of, on a lot of boards, that was the most intense time, of course. Mm-hmm. so I stopped my agency then and was just doing my online course and, and living on those sales. And that was really exploding at the time. But interesting question that you asked, with everything going on in 20 20, 25 with grants in the United States, I actually reopened my agency in 2025 because I had so many nonprofits coming to me locally and they were We don't know what's going on. We need your support. Like they just wanted that safety they want and they wanted to find new funding outside of federal sources. So I actually reopened my agency when a lot of agencies were oh, we gotta shut down. And I was no, no, don't shut down. They need you. so we've actually been, yeah, running our agency and getting clients and doing grant writing. I have, consultants inside my agency as well. So it's not just me, which is great 'cause I'm also running two large programs and yeah. So that's what we've reopened it. Yeah, I was gonna say like how are you balancing all of that, but you clearly have systems in place and, and you kind of come back to the other programs. So you just mentioned you're running two programs and we didn't discuss the other one. So do you wanna talk us through that? Sure. Yeah. So the grant professional mentorship is for people that have already had an established business and now they're looking at hiring a team, maybe hiring grant writers in their business, and they're looking at a system. They might be looking at developing a, a training, in their area or an online program, an online grant writing program, that sort of thing. or just to build up their, their online presence. So, because I have so much experience in that as we've been talking about, right? with all the things, I teach them that, but I also teach them management and how to run an agency where you have staff in your business. so that's been really cool and why we keep it separated. You did ask why do you have the two? Why isn't just one bump up? we have a lot of people that come from the academy and go into the mentorship after they make about five 50 K to six k or to six figures in their business, right? Then they're kind of ready for that. But if I had everything together, I would overwhelm the newbies. Yeah. Yeah, they would start trying to do an on-demand course and I'd be oh, you've never even earned a grant yet. I needed to separate it. So there's, there's, there's a path of support for them and their journey. So it's really for the same person, but at different parts in their journey. and in that way I can offer more support. So we also have other types of support done for you, things and that sort of thing in the mentorship as well. and we do have different curriculum and I, there's a lot more of me, there's me, a lot of me in both programs. I actually do a lot of the coaching still in both programs, but I do have two co-coach in the academy and it, it's just me and the mentorship. So it's a smaller group of people. It's more intimate and it's a little bit higher of a cost because of that intimacy. And we do more one-on-ones in there. So that's at six KA year right now, at this time in 2025. So, and it's a 12 month program as well. But, yeah, so that's, that's where it's kind of a little bit different for different needs, if that makes sense. And we do different things. We track monthly revenue. So our, service offer promise, or what we deliver in there is to help them, double their rev, double their monthly revenue with an added income stream outside of grant writing. So right now I'm actually doing a whole training, 'cause I do a training every single year in my community. And it's always a five figure training. it's either 30,000, 50,000, around there, and it's just to do a six week training in my community. And I, so I'm teaching them how to do that so they can have become more of the thought leader in their community, the go-to grant writer, and you can get clients on the backend from that. But to have a short type of training to get feed in your pipeline and just to have that annual revenue outside of your business. So, yeah, go. So sorry. Talk. Just talk me through that again. I think I kind of, so it is a, it almost an accelerator. You're teaching them how to build, uh, a short live experience where they get quick result. Mm-hmm. And, so what, are you able to share what that looks like? I don't what is it? Yeah, a, I mean also Holly, I'm aware of time and we've run over. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. I'm just gonna quickly check the diary bit with me. and I'll obviously chop this bit out and I was what? We did long form podcast. I this. Yeah, I know. I'm just too, I'm just too interested. yeah, I've got maximum another 10 minutes if that's okay with you. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, so we were just talking about the, the, it, so you are teaching, you are teaching them beyond marketing. You're teaching them how to find. Future clients as well through this kind of media program that you are helping them to design and create? Is that correct? Yeah, so we teach them they already have their clients, but we keep teaching them how to get more clients and basically what we're teaching them is in freelancing, as you know, there is a time equals money kind of. Five. Right? And in the academy, when you're just trying to get to your C first 50 or K or your first a hundred thousand dollars, that's cool. But when you start to scale up, you need to understand how to scale. So that's more of a scaling program where then we're teaching you how to hire people, how to create more systems, SOPs, all of the things. Mm. So you can grow your business without your time because you're gonna get maxed out at some point. And one of the things to do that we also teach you then obviously how to create not, I wouldn't call it passive income 'cause I don't really believe in that, but we teach you other types of things besides just your, your service. So we teach you how to do more products. And a product would be like a training. So that could be an online training, like a two day training on how to get. people grant ready for exam example, right? Yeah. Like grant ready training and then that's gonna lead into your pipeline of your grant writing retainer. So on the back end you could get them into your agency, into your retainer services, but they would still be paying for that training separate. That would be yeah, but one win, I'm gonna get grant ready, I'm gonna get this checklist, I'm gonna get all my things together, right? All my financials. And then they would have that, they would pay a certain amount for that, and it would be more of a product. Some people do, like six week, I do a six week live training every single year in my community where once a week for two hours I teach them a different part of how to write a grant. And by the end of six weeks they have written that entire grant. They get unlimited grant reviews within that six weeks and they walk away with five identified funders. So, and that's. Just a certain price for those six weeks. But on the backend, they could come into, I'm not doing any grant writing, I'm just teaching. Right. Yeah. So it's more about how to be a teacher and a coach in different ways. and one of the training, I'm like, everybody needs to do a training, at least one training a year. And then they can do like on-demand courses and webinars and stuff. But I'm like, you need to have a dedicated training in your community to be the go-to. 'cause that's your warmest place. And by your community, you don't mean existing clients, you're inviting, this is kind of like a low ticket item that you are inviting people to come in and get an experience of working with you. So go out to your email list, you potentially promote it, ads, all the other kind of outreach stuff that we talked about previously. you could, or I just teach, like literally go put some flyers up in the library and at the coffee shop, get on your, open your phone and, and send the flyer out to people that you know in your community. Go to Kmart. I don't know, we have the up in the world, you know, it's more local, get it, go to your Chamber of Commerce and talk about it. you can do the online stuff too, but if you don't have that ready yet, you can absolutely 100% have a training in your actual local geographic community. Yeah. But for you, on a kind of parallel level, do you do this? With your own community as in I do your email list. I do list. And do you Um, I do both. I do, so I have an online community, and then I have my geographic community. So for Guam, I'm my Guam people, my CNMI people. I'm once a year I do the training. I'm only doing my agency in my actual community, doing the actual grant writing. But for my larger business, for my programs, that's global, right? Mm-hmm. But 'cause I'm kind of, I'm I'm gonna teach you. And that's why I was in 2025 when I reopened my agency. I'm not going to, I'm not gonna blast it to my entire list right now. I'm not gonna leverage all the, the things that I have and I could do. 'cause I wanna teach my clients who don't have that platform how they can do it. So we're only taking four clients, we're just getting to a hundred K. But I just wanna show them yeah, we, and we can grow it then after, then I can grow it after online. I don't mind that, but I just wanna be it's still possible to do it in 2025 and this isn't what I'm doing. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes, yes. Yes. It, it's a weird way, it's probably not the smartest, but I feel that's how I'm teaching and giving back to my community too. Yeah, it's very matter, isn't it? It's because understand which of the, because also you don't want to, you do wanna demonstrate it, but you don't wanna in kind of encroach and become a competitor to your clients that you're teaching to do that. Yeah. And you're giving back to your local community and you are there's lots of, there's lots of aspects to it. Time. Okay. I feel like I, and before I go down another rabbit hole, I probably need a coffee to kind of get my head around it, but I just talk to me a bit more about what does the future look like for you in terms of outreach and scaling your business? Not so much the agency side. 'cause you kind of touched on that just now, and I know you limited it, but in terms of the, the two kind of programs that you offer, how are you finding, what, what does it look like in terms of your growth? So we are really scaling up for our programs, the Freelance Grant Writer Academy, and the grant professional mentorship. and because we have a mission, right? We have a movement. And that's another thing I really leaned into this year. It's not just when you get to a certain place in your business, you're like, okay, I'm good. Like I'm safe, I'm protected, I'm all the things, but what about my students? What about their experiences and what, what do I really wanna do? Right? I'm coming up on 50 this summer. I'm really excited about that. Yes, yes. I'm excited and I'm I want something bigger. I want, I want change. And now that I have this platform and privilege, and I ha I know it works, right? I know what we do works. I'm what can we really do with this? So it's been fun to be curious and to lean into that. And you guys, have you heard it on my intro? I was what? We can get to, and I'm looking at the wins 'cause I have Ashley, I have the systems. I'm we can make it to a billion dollars in grant funding by 2030. No problem. We're already a quarter of the way there. Now we're up to over $250 million. 'cause I sent you those stats a month ago and, and in grants one and I'm what? 'cause I'm hearing all the billionaires. Billionaires, yeah. You there's negativity with it. I'm how can I but a billion for nonprofits, if we could get a billion into nonprofits right now when we feel like they're getting cut right now, that things but if we could help facilitate that, we can change. The world. Like we can absolutely change the world, so why not? And then with people's businesses, because as I mentioned, 82% are female in, in my program, right? We have a lot of mix of people and I'm like, we also need more money. When, when women earn more money in their businesses, it's proven that we give more back to our communities. It's like 95% compared to 35% of men. Sorry, men. we got some strong men allies out there. Did you want hit? Yes. So if I'm getting more money. I'm, I'm, I'm sponsoring my daughter's dance. I'm going out and I'm giving this and I'm, you know, I'm in my, women are just more nurturing and we do that. There's facts. It's proven that's what we do. So I'm how can I get money into the more hands of women who are doing this work? And that can make the world a better place too. Mm-hmm. I've had women and students leave abusive relationships because now they have the money and the freedom to do that. Right? we have so many stories of that sort of thing that, women can take care of their kids. there's so much empowerment with this, so why can't we? So now we have a movement, and I'm really excited, I'm gonna goosebumps so whenever I talk about it, but we have this movement to a billion in grants, in 30 million in our freelance grant writers businesses in our programs by 2030. And I mentioned, we're already 25% there in just two years. And during 25. Yeah, when did you start tracking that? That's incredible. And again, you know, just full circle, it's a win-win win because for you it's an incredible marketing message. It's also a huge mission and a big kind of motivator to get out bed in the morning and do the dumb thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. And for your clients is that's the wins, those the proof, you know, potential clients. That's the, the proof that what you do works. Plus not to mention the nonprofits who are winning, you know, $1 billion by 2013, it sounds a long time before. It's the, who is a disadvantage here? there is only good stuff, right? Which is, yeah, it's so good. And the cause areas that people work with are just every cause area. People write international grants, they work for social justice movements. There's just, there's all these amazing cause areas that people are focused on. So it is yeah, as you mentioned, it's a win-win win. I just, and now it motivates me. 'cause I'm also well, when do I wanna retire? And I'm okay, now I have a goal. 20, 30, I wanna, and then maybe where do we go from there? But I mean, if I'm also okay, that's what we did. So it's also an interesting place for me to, focus on. And now we have a focus for our business. We're actually doing a team retreat, in Madrid next month. So we're really excited. Oh, lovely. Yeah. Really excited about that. And our focus is just on how do we capture more student results? 'cause we know we're not capturing them all, even though we have amazing stuff. You can always capture more. And how do we get our students more results? how do they win more grants? How do they get more money and get more clients in their business, right? Mm-hmm. how do they quit their job? So it's just focusing on those things. And because we have this bigger movement of moving, 'cause that what that means, we can move towards that movement. Right. And with you, when we're working together, 'cause you're helping me with some LinkedIn messaging and or marketing and Facebook stuff, it's also we need more students then so we can get, 'cause we know we, it's just stats at this point. The more we have, we, we already know we can get them the results and we're just tweaking that right now and optimizing that. So we just need more people and then we can get there quicker. So yeah, if you all are listening to this and you wanna be a part of the movement, come to grant writing and funding.com. check us out. Listen to our podcast, grant writing and funding podcast. If you all are podcasters. See what we're doing. Hear are the testimonials. Be a part of the movement though because. It's good vibes man. It is good. it's fun. Our people are the best people ever. it's good. Yeah. I'm, I'm fully sold up on, on this, I'm, I'm on it. I am gonna go leave a podcast review now and, and also probably go buy the book 'cause I want a physical copy. but no, I, yeah, absolutely phenomenal. Just such a wonderful. Story. And I just think so much potential because you've done so little, kind of active outbound marketing, and you've achieved so much success, and now you get to, like you say, scale that up and kind of get to that bigger goal faster. and it's, it's all, it's all just so good. So good. I'm so pleased to be working. Charlotte. Yeah. And Charlotte, I just, one word, I've been doing this for 11 years. I wish I would've started with, with you earlier. I wish I would've started with marketing earlier. Just a word out there too. I've been able to do this. it's coming in all the organic, but imagine if I would've leveraged that more, how much faster? We could've gone to a billion. We've already been there. You know what I mean? So there's a part of me, I can't look back, I'm, I'm also blessed, with what is happening in my life and all the things. Yeah. But you know, and I'm happy to be moving forward now, but I'm just also if you guys are looking and just waiting, waiting, waiting, We, you know, you gotta know your priorities and your time, but it is, it is important to do, I think, paid marketing when you can. And I could have tapped into it sooner, but I was just so focused on having fun in my program. Well, I know, I know. I don't wanna thank you so much for saying that, and I don't wanna do what you said a disservice, but I, what I heard, what you, I just heard you say was, we're so comfortable. We know what we do delivers. We are confident the results, we're confident the curriculum, we're confident of the systems, the setup. That is such a wonderful place to be in before I'm fully believe in imperfect action and just doing the dumb thing. But you are in a place now where there, there's no fear, there's no kind of discomfort around the other stuff in the background. So many people are in a position where they need to be doing both at the same time. Otherwise they literally can't continue in business. So, yeah, just. Hats off to you because the fact that you've got to this stage without any super active outbound marketing, I think is just phenomenal. And, yeah, and, and really, inspiring. So thank you so much, Holly, for joining us today. Such a delight to have you and, and yeah, for having me. I, I really enjoyed this. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you to all the listeners out there. This has been so much fun and all, all the stuff that Holly mentioned. We're gonna put all the links in the show notes, so go check those out. I know there's loads of incredible resources on her site and lying around, so we'll, we'll direct you to those. Thank you, Holly. Thank you so much.